“The Power of Discipleship: A Call to Genuine Connection”

[00:00:00]

Lori: Good morning and welcome back to another episode of My Mornings with Jesus and Joe. I’m Lori.

Joe: And I’m Joe.

Lori: And we are coming at you with some changes. You’ve noticed that our podcast hasn’t been as regular the last few weeks but it’s because we’ve been trying to research some ways to make it more impactful and more beneficial to our listeners.

And so for some reason, this is what we’re trying.

Joe: Yes. For some reason,

Lori: it’s for some reason. We’re also, one thing you’ll note is that we’re gonna go to we’re planning to go to an every other Monday format to give us more time to prepare our content and material for you. It’s just hard with our travel schedules to [00:01:00] stay on this, and I’m sure there are.

Ways that we could do podcasts on the road, but we have enough trouble doing ’em right here, so we’re not looking to take it anywhere else.

Joe: And there’s enough on the road going on that, it’d be hard to squeeze that in.

Lori: Yeah. We just got back from Phoenix, Arizona.

Joe: Yes.

Lori: From the Faith, hope and Love Christian Writers Conference.

Joe: Mm-hmm.

Lori: Where I was blessed to be a speaker and a teacher at that conference and, and

Joe: did an awesome devotion

Lori: well. I am glad you think so?

Joe: Yes. It was a great devotion.

Lori: I tried. I work on it really hard and then I pray that the Holy Spirit just does his thing.

Joe: And there were several people there that said that was exactly what they needed.

At that time,

Lori: y’all, I did not pay him to say that. But I love the conference just because it’s a bunch of like-minded writers all getting together and, you know, pulling, playing for the same team. We’re all pulling for the glory of the Lord. That’s what we’re there for. And [00:02:00] it’s just a really, it’s a really good event.

But I also have to give a little bit of a shout out to you, Joe, because normally when I do one of these events, I come back and I don’t do too well emotionally for a couple days afterwards. Like it just really my personality, it. It hits me hard, and so I’ll have a couple of really kind of down days afterwards.

But you figured out that if you ease me into it with some things that really touch my soul and then bring me out of it the same way.

Joe: Yes.

Lori: It makes a huge difference. So we went out there. Early with enough time to go hiking in a really pretty area. So we spent a few hours doing that before we rolled on down into Phoenix.

Joe: Mm-hmm.

Lori: And then when we came out, you had a very special overnight stay plan for me. It was the Kohl’s Ranch Lodge.

Joe: Yes.

Lori: Which you know, it was great and gorgeous and would’ve been wonderful on its own, but it was also a place where Zane Gray, if you’re familiar with him, he was a, an author prolific.

Western author way [00:03:00] back in the day. And really someone that I read to get through some hard times at home. I just needed what he had to say anyway, so this was a place that he used to go to write for inspiration. So it just really, it was really special.

Joe: It’s a good place for a rider to go hang out.

Lori: I was

attacked by a squirrel.

Joe: A little bit. Yeah. Screamed like a girl.

Lori: Well, I’m a girl.

Joe: Oh, yeah.

Lori: I

think the squirrel screamed too.

Joe: Oh, he, he took off one direction and you took off another, once y’all realized what happened.

Lori: Yeah, yeah. Anyway, squirrels are friendly.

Joe: Oh yeah.

Lori: Till they bite your ear off.

Joe: He didn’t get that high.

No,

Lori: no he didn’t. The screaming commenced way before that. Yeah. So so how about you, Joe? What’s been up with you Other than running me around to stuff right now?

Joe: Well, two days before we took off out there, I had just gotten back from a base camp up in Oklahoma. And we had a little over a hundred men there and we baptized 16 and I had four of them [00:04:00] want me to personally baptize them, which was kind of neat.

Lori: Which if y’all know Joe, he doesn’t do cold water. Like I’m surprised that they got him baptized before the rapture because he, like a toe goes in and we wait a while, then we get up to our ankle and then a little more. So I know the Holy Spirit had to have been

Joe: Oh, he was, he was doing his thing. Yeah.

Typically we’d do ’em at. About after the camp was done on a Sunday at noon is when we do the baptisms. Well, that particular day we had one of the guys, he was flew in from North Carolina and he had a plane to catch about 10 30 or so. He had to leave camp to get to the airport to get back to North Carolina.

Well, he wanted baptized before he left, and so we changed and did Lori’s talking about the cold water we did. Sunrise baptisms, and we started

Lori: That’s awesome.

Joe: A little before seven or about [00:05:00] seven, and the sun wasn’t up till seven 30, so we were down there in the lake. Before the sudden came up. So it was just, that’s just sweet.

That’s just sweet, cool water. But it was just so fun and Yeah. Totally worth it. Yeah. For those 16 men, but that young man had given his life to Christ the day before, and so he wanted to celebrate and we wanted him to not miss the opportunity.

Lori: You got some other things coming up? Oh, yes ma’am. You got a, a busy schedule for the next few weeks.

Joe: Yeah, next few weeks I’ve got, a camp called the Summit, which is coming up here on the 16th, and it’ll be up in northeast Oklahoma. And we’ve got some men going to that, and it’s gonna be really good. It’s an advanced camp after you’ve been to a base camp or two, then you go to that one. So. That one’s fun and it’s a great message and I look forward to bringing the guys that are coming with me, but I also look forward to anybody who can attend that and get that message.

And so then we also then I get back from that and I’ll be back for about a [00:06:00] week, one week almost. And then off we go again for. Give Lori A. Little writing retreat while I go to a, a leader’s camp with John Eldridge at Wild At Heart. And so it’s a small group and was invited back in June to attend that and super excited about that.

And so he sent us homework. So I’ve been working on that. Got a little bit more to work on ’cause that’s coming really quick.

Lori: You know, who else gives us homework?

Joe: Who?

Lori: God.

Joe: Oh, he does.

Lori: Like no matter how many times you read the Bible

Joe: mm-hmm.

Lori: Gotta keep reading it. There’s more. There’s just more,

Joe: there’s always more and, and we just want, I pray every day for that desire to continue to read my mm-hmm.

My word and study my word and apply my word.

Lori: I’ve

been reading through why

his. Psalms and Proverbs every morning. I’ve just been repeat on repeat, on repeat, and every time I read them you would think the same verses stick out, but new things illuminate every time. It’s great. So as [00:07:00] soon as we get back from that trip, then the next day we have the Ethnos conference.

Yes. Here in Stephenville.

Joe: So Lighthouse Church in Stephenville has. First time they’ve done this, it’s the first time event. It’s a one day event from eight in the morning till four 30 in the afternoon and a missions conference and he’s got speakers lined up and some praise and worship time. It is just going to be a great event for people to learn what are the mission opportunities there are outside of their own church.

’cause some churches don’t do any missions and so this gives those that. Are in one of those churches, an opportunity to go find a mission field somewhere, whether it be across the state. In their backyard or overseas. Lots of opportunities. Yeah. So very exciting.

Lori: And it’s free. Yes. And Joe and I will be helping perform a version of the Pilgrim’s Progress.

Yes. So totally worth the entertainment value right there. Oh

Joe: yeah. We, [00:08:00] we’ll see how that goes.

Lori: Exactly. It’s

Joe: only about three and a half weeks away, or three weeks, four weeks, whatever. So. Sneaking up on us. It is sneaking up on us, but it’s on November 1st and it is free.

Lori: Yes. And I’ll put a link in the show notes mm-hmm.

So that you can find out more information, go to the website and hopefully sign up and join us for that. That’d be great. Yeah. You know. I think a lot of the country’s still reeling a little bit after what’s happened with Charlie Kirk, his assassination. Mm-hmm. You know, immediately after that we had just all these conspiracy theories blow up and, and I do wanna caution y’all, if you’re listening to a conspiracy theory, no.

These people have a motive, motive for generating those, and that is because they get a lot of views when they do that. It’s, it’s about. Views and monetizing their podcasts and those sort of things. Yeah, there’s, there’s a financial motive behind most of that. So I, I guess some of ’em are just loonies, but there’s that, there’s that.

So, [00:09:00] yeah. But one of the things that we’ve been hearing a lot of is how many people are returning to church mm-hmm. Right now. And I think that’s a wonderful thing, but it could also be. N not wonderful if we don’t handle it correctly. That’s right. And I will say even when we were traveling, traveling, we usually, you know, we try to talk to the people, we run into, the people at the convenience stores where we stop the restaurants, the people that are serving us there, the hotels and things.

And we are hearing on this last trip we, we did, we heard a lot of people talking about, well, I’m, I’m getting back to church. I really wanna get back to church and all that. And that’s great. But, i, I think we need to, we need to count the cost. Yes. I know I’ve been reading Jeremiah and you know, in it you have King Josiah.

Mm-hmm. And he was a good king and he came in and he was clearing out all the high places, the idols. He restored the temple. And got people to going back to the [00:10:00] temple. Yeah. But the problem was they continued to worship their idols while they were going to the temple. Yeah. They were, they were just basically giving God lip service and they hadn’t really surrendered their lives to him.

And I think if we don’t serve all these. Seekers, these people who are looking, coming back to church. If we let them get away with just lip service, then it’s not gonna last. It’s not gonna bless them the way that it should. Mm-hmm. Or make a heart change like it should.

Joe: Yep. So like, if anybody was around and.

September 11th, 2001. They kinda remember how that looked after that happened. And so we don’t wanna repeat that where there’s a whole bunch of people showing up at church trying to figure out what’s going on and just confused and trying to, they. I feel like there’s a better way ’cause they weren’t going to church, but then they get to church and they’re like, okay, there’s something good.

But then as things got [00:11:00] good again, and about a year later, a lot of those people that came to church, so distraught and looking for something, when everything got good again in the world, so to speak, or things settle down, you didn’t find them in church anymore.

Lori: Do you think that’s because the churches didn’t do a good job of discipling them when they came back?

Joe: That’s kind of what it looks like to me. And they were just there looking for just a little something to hang onto until it wasn’t rough anymore. And then once it got good again, they went back out into the comfort of the world where they were all the years before that. So, but discipleship is. A key.

Lori: So really as a church, we have as a body believers, a window of opportunity to catch these people’s hearts.

Yes. And to lead them to salvation and to get them on the road to being a Christ follower. Right. The analogy I have is like, there’s a doorway and you’ve got these people that are wanting to come back to church [00:12:00] seeking. Answers Seeking truth and they’re on one side of the doorway. And then we’ve got the body of Christ, the, the people in the churches whatever on the other side of the doorway and, and the people that are the followers of Christ, they open the door.

Sure. We’re gonna open the door. Mm-hmm. And invite these people in. Yeah. Now. If you were to come to my house and you were standing outside my door and I opened it and invited you in, I would not immediately leave that room, go somewhere else and, and just leave you mm-hmm. To fend for yourself standing there.

It, it’s more than so showing them to a seat and saying, we’re glad you’re here. Right. We have a responsibility to help them understand why they’re here. Yep. Yeah. So don’t treat ’em like the guests you leave at the door, right? You, you gotta walk through ’em. And, well, let’s just move on with some more stuff.

I got, I’ve got a lot to say here. What is discipleship, Joe? What really is it?

Joe: Discipleship, A lot of churches. I trying to think. [00:13:00] There’s a lot of churches that I’ve seen what they do and their, their idea of discipleship is usually just have a. Weekly study a every other week study

Lori: May A, maybe a welcome to the church.

Here’s a class so you know what we believe,

Joe: right? And so some of that, and they’ll go through that, maybe do just some regular Bible study along with that and have a little bit of that for a little bit. And typically it goes. Short term, and then they kind of turn ’em loose, even if a lot of ’em don’t even have that.

Yeah. And they just have ’em, welcome, come sit, here’s what we do. Here’s our hours, here’s, you know, here’s your childcare. Here’s all the things you need. And they don’t have anybody to walk alongside ’em. And that is what true discipleship is.

Lori: Yeah. It’s walking it out together. Is

Joe: walking it out. ’cause if you read anything in scriptures, every time Jesus [00:14:00] went to find disciples, first thing he says is, follow me.

Follow me, follow me. And so what you do is you like those disciples, follow Jesus. So we’re following Jesus. As disciple makers, and so what we do is like, I’m imitating Christ. You imitate me, and you’re going to be walking alongside. In discipleship, it’s more about watching what we do and how we do it and the things we say more than just studying his word.

Studying his word is great. I love doing that every day, and we should all do that every day, but walking alongside and having somebody follow me as I’m following Christ. Then they turn around and they’ll be able to do that for the next person that comes along, newer than them.

Lori: It’s, it’s like another analogy here, bringing that new newborn baby home from the hospital.

Mm-hmm. When the, when they first bring ’em home, they [00:15:00] can’t do any, they don’t know, they don’t speak your language. They can’t feed themselves. And so you’re taking that new believer and. In helping them understand the language and you’re feeding ’em on scripture and the truth and you’re, you’re teaching them as they grow, they’ll start walking.

Mm-hmm. And they’ll get bigger and eventually they will be like, those teenagers you hope move out of your house. Not that you want ’em to leave church, but they become independent. They go out and start. Doing this stuff on their own and they start discipling someone else. Yeah. But discipling isn’t a class.

It isn’t a six weeks class, a six week class, 10 week class, 12 week. It, it’s a lifetime commitment. That’s it. And everybody is responsible for it. Everybody in the church.

Joe: And a lot of times what happens is when somebody first gives their life to Christ, a lot of churches like chalk that up as mission accomplished.

Let’s move on. Yeah, let’s get the next one. And that’s, to me, that’s where the real journey begins when you start following Christ [00:16:00] initially, because that’s the, that’s where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. ’cause that’s where it’s gonna get hard for that person. The church is thinking it’s easy ’cause they’ve got ’em in, but that’s when it really gets hard because as a follower of Christ, then you kind of have a target on your back from then on.

Our mission in scripture is to go make disciples. And so our whole mission is make disciples who make disciples. So if we drop the ball on making disciples, then there’s nobody coming up behind us to make more disciples. And so we want to do it in such a way, it’s a lifetime commitment to Christ. To make disciples that you just keep filling in behind you.

So like in my case, I always tell people, it’s like something happens to me. I’ve got enough disciples behind me that I’ve been pulling along and leading for years. That they ought to be able to just step in and, [00:17:00] and fill the gap and keep going. Like, nobody will miss me. ’cause it’s all about Jesus.

Lori: And I’ve seen, I’ve seen the, that play out.

I mean, there are men that I have watched you disciple and then I turn around and watch them. It’s beautiful. Be these incredible disciples. It’s beautiful and yeah, it is. So I ran across a quote that’s from Vance Havner. And he says, our Lord made discipleship hard and lost many prospective followers because he called them to a pilgrimage, not a parade, to a fight, not a frolic.

Joe: Amen. I love that quote.

Lori: So that’s the other thing about when you’re discipling someone, the enemy doesn’t like that.

Joe: No, he doesn’t.

Lori: And you are gonna have to stand strong. You have to put on your armor every day. Mm-hmm. Do the battle. Yep.

Joe: Yeah, you gotta armor up and stay armored up. You can’t just put it on a little bit here, a little bit there.

It’s, you got to stay armored up ’cause it is a fight.

Lori: It’s like in Luke chapter 14 where he says, he talks about counting the cost.

Joe: Mm-hmm. [00:18:00] Yep. We gotta count the cost and everything has a cost to it.

Lori: So let’s talk about some real ways that we can disciple Joe. How do we connect with or help someone who is searching for the truth?

Joe: Well, we’re gonna show ’em scriptures and walk through scriptures with them, lead them through. There’s so many scriptures that they need to hear, especially a first time Christian, a, a new believer. They, they have a lot to learn because they’ve heard the world all these years. And part of what we’re doing is we get to.

We have to change the renewal of the mind as Romans 12 one talks about.

Lori: So do you have to know all the scripture? Do you have to be able to explain everything? No. To be a discipler?

Joe: No. All you gotta do is be a step ahead of the one you’re discipling to because the Holy Spirit is going to help [00:19:00] you, lead you.

Give you the scriptures you need for that person because he already knows what they need.

Lori: Well, I think too that you should be in a place where you know where to go to get the answers. Like, it’s okay for me to admit. Yeah. I don’t understand that passage passage either. Mm-hmm. But let me, let me go with you, work with you and, and we’ll find the answer together.

Amen. You know, that right there is huge.

Joe: It’s genuine honesty because we’ll never know ’em all. I mean, there’s 30. 3000 scriptures or something in there, and we’re never gonna know each one and know. The meaning of each one. And there’s a lot of those that we can read over and over and over, and we learn more every day as we’re reading it.

And that’s the living word. So God reveals a little more to us every day when we pray for that. But the other thing with there’s a handful of scriptures, we’ll never even understand this side of heaven. And so. You shouldn’t discount yourself as being able to disciple someone [00:20:00] based on that you don’t know enough or you hadn’t been to college, or bible college or seminary or wherever.

You don’t have to have that.

Lori: Even if you don’t see yourself as a teacher or a speaker or any of those things, you know what you have to do. Yeah. Just invite ’em to lunch. Yes. Invite ’em to go out. For coffee or a walk in the park and just have a conversation about how you’re doing life as a Christian. Yeah.

It doesn’t even have to, your conversation may not start out about scriptures. Yeah. You may not start there. You start building a relationship that shows them that you care and that you have some things about you that they’re gonna want. Let them see you be joyful. Mm-hmm. And confident and not fearful as you walk it out and they’ll start having a hunger for.

The wisdom that is in the Bible.

Joe: There’s, there’s a lot of people that’ll come up to us because they’ve seen us walking it out for years and they’re seeking, but they’re not sure what they’re seeking, but [00:21:00] they’re seeking that hope and that joy and that. Just that peace and there’s only one place to get it, and that’s through Christ and his word.

And so as we’re doing those things, there’s people that are going to come up to you and just ask questions and, and like Lori said, you don’t have to just. Bombard them with scriptures to be discipling ’em, you that’ll come. But they, they want to know that you care about them enough to, to share the gospel and to explain the gospel deeper.

If they’ve just come to Christ,

Lori: I would say that if they’ve just come to church, they’re new coming in, please don’t run at ’em with the Bible and start whacking ’em over the head. You know, don’t do that. People don’t care how much. You know, until they know how much you care. Very good. So the caring has to come first.

Yeah. A sincere mm-hmm. Care Caring. Yep. I’ve got several resources that I’ll put in the show notes that I’ve found helpful. Some books, some other podcasts, things like that, that [00:22:00] maybe would help you feel more comfortable, more confident. As always, you know, you can reach out to us with questions or whatever, and we’re happy to answer them.

That’s right. If we can, if we won’t, we’ll tell you. We can’t answer it, but we’ll help find the answer together. That it. So, Joe, how about those? So we’ve talked about the ones that are opening the door to all these people coming in. Mm-hmm. So how about if you’re one of those people who is looking for the truth and you’re not exactly sure.

And, and all this has got you started, you just know there’s something going on inside of you. So you’re, you’re wanting to go back to church. Mm-hmm. What would you say to them?

Joe: I’ve had. Many of these discussions as well. And I’ve had people say, well I want to do this. I want to get to church. I want to do, I want to get more right with the Lord.

Just not sure. And I’m not even sure where to start reading in the Bible. I don’t even know what Bible to read. And so it’s, it’s fun to have those discussions because there’s certain things that are [00:23:00]easier to get somebody started to understand. There’s also. Different. Bibles, there’s some that should be avoided versions because they’re not even really a true version, but there’s a couple that are really solid, that are easy to read.

There’s some people that want to try to start with a King James because they know it’s pretty original, and that’s all fine and good. If you’re an

Lori: old English major or someone who loves Shakespeare, go for it.

Joe: But if, if you’re not, if you’re just. An average person trying to read the Bible and trying to learn for the first time, that’s a hard one to start with.

I mean, you can, I’m not saying you can’t. It’s good stuff and it’s accurate. Mm-hmm. But there are some others, like the new King James version is a little easier to read and understand. It’s my favorite the ESV. Is another one, the English standard version. So that’s another one. And there’s a a handful more that are very accurate.

And when I say accurate, I mean accurate with the [00:24:00] translation of Hebrew and Greek to the correct words. There’s some of these quote unquote versions that are not accurate to. The original Hebrew and Greek words. So when you read through those, it’s just fluff. And they’re

Lori: not a word for word no translation.

They’re more of an idea for idea, and that allows a lot of interpretation on the person.

Joe: Yeah, and And there’s some of them, they’re even like, instead of taking a word that’s super critical in the Hebrew or Greek, they’ll take. A whole sentence and just kind of word it like they want to make it sort of make sense and, and those are bad, bad to try to learn from.

They’re not accurate. There’s a whole bunch of ’em that are soft on the wording and they don’t really talk like they should about sin, the blood of Christ and [00:25:00] redemption. Repentance. There’s a lot of those things. They’re, they’re. They put soft in those because they’re already playing soft with the, the real words.

And so you need a good, good Bible version to, to help you there.

Lori: How about like before you visit a church? Mm-hmm. Like I would say you need to go to their website, I mean. You may be tempted to go to the, the one, the church that’s right around the corner or the, the biggest church in town or whatever.

Mm. But I would encourage you to please go to their website and read their statement of, of Faith and what they believe. I’ve put a link to, I think what I think is a really good example right. Of, of a church doing this in the show notes. Mm-hmm. But don’t feel like you have to go to the first church you, you come across.

Don’t feel like you have to stay there. Right. Because not every church is pre preaching the word of God. I know that’s a hard thing to say. A hard thing to hear. I wish it wasn’t so, but it’s true. But there’s a, a huge difference, and we’re gonna talk about in a little bit some of the [00:26:00] different types of teaching,

Joe: right?

So Lori talking about that. So another thing is. When you looking at that for church, a church to attend and a church to be a part of a true Bible. Believe in church. The other thing. Use that same mentality when you’re looking to do some ministry stuff. There’s a lot of ministry opportunities out there, and they’re not all created equal either.

And so you need to kind of look at their belief system and their statement of faith. Mm-hmm. To kind of make sure that it aligns with the church you’re finding with scriptures.

Lori: Yeah. What missions and causes do they support. Yes, exactly. Some of ’em get a little

Joe: yeah,

Lori: they get their toes over the edge.

Yes. Way too far. They’re, they’re very, woke. Yeah. Okay. I was gonna, I was trying to figure out the politically correct way to say woke, but it’s, they’re just woke.

Joe: Yeah, they’re just woke.

Lori: Yes. Not good. It’s not good. Yeah. So you wanna ask if their sermons are Bible based? Yes. And what would [00:27:00] be mean by this?

And this is our word of the day. If you’re on Sesame Street here. Oh, Sesame Street. Whoa. Nevermind. Is the teaching expository, topical, or textual?

Joe: My favorite. Yes, expository. Exactly.

Lori: So what on earth does that mean? Expository preaching.

Joe: So that is verse by verse, word by word, preaching through a book of the Bible.

And it just like, there’s one pastor I’ve been listening to for probably about four years now, and we’re just now into Romans. 14 and, and we’ve been

Lori: in Romans the whole time and

Joe: we’ve been in Romans the whole time. And I’ve got another church that I’ve listened to all the time as well. And one of, when he went through Romans, he did it in about a year, but he didn’t go as deep.

But still, to go through that in a year was a lot. And for me, that was back when I was. Starting to really [00:28:00] understand how this scripture works and applying it and deep studies and all that. But that’s the expository. It’ll go through verse by verse, word by word, and tie back to other scriptures in the Bible to help you to understand and put it all together.

And that’s, that is by far the best way to learn.

Lori: I agree it, it’s the most solid. Mm-hmm. It allows the least interpretation, right? It’s not the pastor searching out scripture to prop up mm-hmm. What he wants to talk about. So the definition of expository teaching and preaching that I found is expository preaching presents the meaning and intent of a biblical text providing commentary and examples to make the passage clear and understandable.

Joe: There you go. So I’ll back up just a little on that. That same preacher that’s doing that the Romans for the last four years, and we’re just now into 14. That’s on Sundays in the same [00:29:00] timeframe. He started on Hebrews and Wednesday nights, and so we’ve been going through Hebrews and Romans this whole time, and they’re.

Clicking along pretty close to the same. There’s a little more Romans than there is Hebrews, so I expect we’ll run outta Hebrews before long, but it’s so cool to learn that much in depth and know what scripture says. Know what scripture means and know how to apply it to your life. Yeah.

Lori: If you’re really gonna stand on a solid rock on a firm foundation, if that’s what you’re looking for, that firm foundation is God’s word.

Yes. And so anything that helps you understand scripture better mm-hmm. Is, is vital. Mm-hmm. To your Christian walk. Yep. So the next time, next kind of preaching we often run into is topical. Yes. And topical. The definition I found was it’s to prepare a topical sermon. The preacher starts with a topic and then finds a [00:30:00] passage in the Bible that addresses that topic.

So if someone wanted to, if a preacher wanted to preach, preach on pride, that was his topic, he would go back and scan through the Bible and pull out verses to support. Or use in his sermon on Pride. Mm-hmm. That’s not ta, he’s pulling verses from here and there. It’s not that steady, consistent, one thing builds upon another because in the Bible, one thing builds upon another as you’re reading it.

Mm-hmm. And you need that foundation in the teaching, in the understanding,

Joe: and, and that’s. That’s what I’d say. The majority of the churches, that’s the way they teach or preach a sermon, is they do topicals. So one week you might be learning about marriage. One week you might be learning about kids and raising a family.

I mean, it’s just different things and it’s gonna be topics based on whatever.

Lori: Whatever the pastor, whatever

Joe: [00:31:00] really the pastor is. Mm-hmm. Looking to share with y’all, and it is probably something that’s going on in his world and he wants to share it because he’s kind of had to dig in to figure some things out.

But topical, I,

Lori: yeah, that’s, I can tell you straight up, I’m guilty of that too when I write a blog post mm-hmm. Or devotions for some of these places I write, it’s usually something that I, I’m having to work through in my own life. Mm-hmm. That’s what God’s put on my heart, and he’s using it to make me dig deeper.

Yep. And, and wrestle with some. Some thoughts.

Joe: And so I, I send out some devotions as a text sort of thing, and one of the things that happens there is God’s working with me on some of these things, so I know if he’s working with me on that, there’s other people in the same boat. So when I share it, it, it usually works that way.

And there’ll be people like, oh yeah, me too. Thank you. I needed that today. Those kind of things. And that’s what Lori’s talking about. And I know that’s what some of the topical. And that’s

Lori: fine for the things we’re doing. [00:32:00] Mm-hmm. But for preaching where you should be learning, right? You’re at church, you should be learning God’s word.

Mm-hmm. Above all else. Yeah. Yeah. Expository over topical any day.

Joe: If, if you get to, so I’ll give you another example of that. So like several of the pastors I’ve listened to, even our own, when we were talking on Roman stuff, Romans 8 28, for example, we spent. A good couple weeks on that one verse. And I know when you really take it, ’cause when you’re doing expository preaching, you’re taking the little pieces of that whole verse and breaking them down.

Mm-hmm. And showing where scriptures show how that works. And so, I know I’ve heard some of ’em, there’ll be two or three weeks on one verse. Just to break it down to where it all finally makes sense and it’s not just a cup coffee cup verse.

Lori: And for some of y’all who are like used to [00:33:00] scrolling, getting those little.

Bites of information or whatever, and, and moving on to the next thing, and you’re thinking, oh my goodness. All that time on one verse, I promise you. Oh yeah. A good pastor will not a good preacher will not make that boring. You won’t. Oh, not at all. You’ll be glued to every word.

Joe: You’re hanging on the edge of your seat writing notes.

You should be writing notes.

Lori: And that’s when that’s when he’s filled with the Holy Spirit. Yes, the Holy Spirit is leading him and speaking through him.

Joe: And he’ll say, well, I’ll be wrapping it up today. And then next thing you know, you get to the end of the day and it’s like, we’re gonna have to do one more sermon.

Mm-hmm. And so it’s so cool. But then the other part of that, I’ll say on the topical piece of that is something you’ll hear a lot of preachers do that it’s, it’s hard, but they’ll, they’ll say, here’s. Four ways to have a better marriage or whatever, and three ways to study your Bible. And so it’s all these things [00:34:00] like that.

And that’s what happens in the topical. And it’s not so much the scripture, it’s ways to help you. Yeah. Self-help. See self-help. Self-help. And that’s not what the Bible’s all about. No. And so that’s where expository to me, I know myself, I can’t, I can’t

Lori: help me. If I could help me, I would’ve already done it.

Joe: Yeah. If you could help you, you wouldn’t need Jesus.

Lori: Yeah. Right.

Joe: And you need Jesus.

Lori: I need Jesus. We all need Jesus. The other way that we hear about is textual. And that is when the preacher uses a text as a springboard for discussing a particular point. Yeah.

Joe: Which is kind of along those lines. It’s, mm-hmm.

There’s something that he wants to talk about and he’ll give you seven ways to do this. Mm-hmm. Or five ways to do this. And I got all these three points, 7.5 sermons and. It’s just better to just go in the word, word by word, verse by verse and really learn and go deep. All these others are shallow.

Lori: So in both [00:35:00] topical and textual sermons, the Bible passage is used as support material for the topic in expository sermons.

This Bible passage is the topic and support materials are used to explain and clarify it. Amen. So, I’m not saying that God can’t use. Any of these he can certainly do that. Mm-hmm. I’m not gonna say what I was gonna say.

Joe: There are times when, like all the preachers I listen to every week with the expository preaching, which I love.

There’s still times when there is something going on in the world mm-hmm. Something going on in life, they’ll stop the expository preaching and do a a, mm-hmm. Topical setting to take care of that particular subject

Lori: because their congregations need their pastor to step in and do that.

Joe: And that’s listening to the Holy Spirit.

Mm-hmm. And the Holy Spirit will step in and do that, but when they get through with that. And there are some good [00:36:00] ones that are in that spot. They’ll go back to what they were doing on the expository. So every now and then you’re going to have that, but. It’s be Holy Spirit led.

Lori: So, like I said, I’m not saying God can’t use any of those right forms.

He can, he can speak to people through any of them. Mm-hmm. But and I’m not saying we have it all together. No. But if you want to disciple by following us mm-hmm. Then you’re gonna look to expository teaching. Yes. Because I’ll, I’ll stand on that being the way to go.

Joe: Amen.

Lori: Every day.

Joe: Yep. And, and that’s the other part of that is.

You know, we could stay topical and just kind of a lot of the topical ones too. Not every one of them, but a lot of them, it’s just kind of make you feel good and kind of get you. Where you kind of leave church with a little bit of a woo-hoo moment because you’ve got some ways to fix something in your life or ways to adjust something in your life, and that’s all fine and good.

But a, a [00:37:00] great sermon, I, that’s shallow. I want to go deep because we need to be deep with Christ to be deep rooted, to be standing on that solid rock of Christ, and we want to be able to help others come along. Beside, if we’re saying follow me, they’re gonna follow us into the deep. We’re not gonna sit in the shallow.

Yeah. And then always a good sermon, a good message. You usually don’t leave a good sermon with a woo-hoo. And feeling good about yourself and feeling it’s more like an

Lori: ouch.

Joe: It’s more like a ouch. You can’t say amen. You better say out. Out.

Lori: Well, we’re all sinners. I mean, we’re all sinners. That’s just. Yep.

That’s just the truth of the matter. It doesn’t matter how deep we are walking until our resurrected bodies mm-hmm. We’re gonna be sinners. Yep. No matter how we try not to. And so where was I going with that?

Joe: I don’t know.

Lori: Oh, so our sermons should be convicting us. Sorry. [00:38:00]

Joe: Yes. And and that’s the thing as a good sermon when you’re digging in the word.

It’s gonna convict you and you’re not gonna, I mean, you’re still gonna leave uplifted, right? But it’s not gonna be a,

Lori: you’re gonna leave encouraged, encouraged not with joy

Joe: and hope, but not just a happy

Lori: no, not confirmed in your sin,

Joe: right? If, if you didn’t get a little conviction from a sermon about the sin you might have, or walking in.

Then it wasn’t the sermon you were supposed to hear. That’s right. And so we want to dig deep.

Lori: So if you are that new believer, or maybe you’re someone who has been away from the church for a while mm-hmm. And you feel something in you and you’re trying to get back in and you don’t know, don’t be afraid to find someone and ask them to disciple you.

Amen. And if that person says no, then yeah, don’t worry about it because they weren’t. Meant to be discipling people anyway. No. And if you’re the person being asked, don’t say no. Mm-hmm. You know, you can do something and [00:39:00] engage with this person until maybe a better fit mm-hmm. Comes along or whatever is needed.

But you can do something.

Joe: And the other part of that is as we disciple others. We’re going deeper ourselves. ’cause we wanna make sure we stay ahead of them to be able to help ’em and pull them along so then they can pull somebody else along. So it makes you go deeper to learn more yourself. So everybody’s winning in that ’cause we’re all just getting closer to Jesus at that, at that rate.

So it works really good.

Lori: Yeah. So, i’ve got a lot of things. I’m gonna put in the show notes, show notes this time for y’all. Of course I will put our email in there and if you, if you have questions, if you have thoughts, if you have concerns if you just need some direction or whatever, please feel free to email us, right?

’cause we do respond and we actually enjoy being able to connect with y’all on it. Yeah, well, it’s not in person, but a one-to-one basis, right? Because [00:40:00] otherwise it’s just us sitting here at the kitchen table talking to each other,

Joe: and sometimes it’s in person. As we go to these events, there’s several of ’em, they’ll come up and talk to us and it’s, it’s neat to get that kind of feedback from what we’re sharing.

Lori: All right, so again, we are probably gonna be every other Monday. Is gonna be the schedule for this. That’s what we’re shooting for right now and we would love to hear from you anyway. And just let us know what you need, want to hear about any of those things for the podcast. We welcome your comments and feedback.

Mm-hmm. As well as your questions and concerns. So this in the end,

Joe: but it’s the end for now.

Lori: See you next time on another My Mornings with Jesus and Joe.